May 4, 2006 at 3:15 am 10 comments

quoted from a conversation, j said:

I say generally. Not specifically refer to this Saturday. Pain and anguish is very individual. Others can listen, but hardly really share.

Whether physical, mental, spiritual pain, they are all individual. This is why I think the most threatening force of pain/anguish is not so much pain itself as the loneliness it renders. This is my theory.  Loneliness aches deeply and existentially.

That is why I think Incarnation is so important and central to Christian faith and to humankind.  Incarnation entails true fellowship and genuine community that would give us power to counter loneliness.


Genuine fellowship and community life rescue us from the mud of hatred and self-pity, and enable us to see a wider life, higher horizon, and greater need.


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搶救蝸牛 沉痛的背脊

10 Comments Add your own

  • 1. manda  |  May 4, 2006 at 4:12 am

    not sure about physical pain, as for spirital and mental pain, no doubt the most unbearable part comes from the extreme alienation from the others as well as….. perhaps even your own self……… the origin of you very own creation in the universe, falling into a complete darkness and chaos of no end.

    in theory, perhaps our christian thoery, loneliness comes from satan, a lie that separates us from the love of our Father. it’s a LIE!!!
    in practice, and in my experience, it takes lots of practice to fight with Satan and truly accept Jesus as a LIVING God, so that we can be a winner over satan and hence loneliness/separation.

    while our salvation starts with the incarmation of Jesus, our separation/loneliness ends with His resurrection.

    i am thinking aloud in my writing here. correct me if i am wrong.

  • 2. manda  |  May 4, 2006 at 4:26 am


    ‘the root of rejection – a good book that explains rejection and loneliness. inspiring indeed.

  • 3. 飲者  |  May 4, 2006 at 8:51 am

    I don’t think loneliness is a ‘lie’ though, whether from satan or anybody.
    On the contrary, loneliness is an existential and ontological reality of the humankind (as well as of humanity itself). In ‘classical’ Christian notion, it is ultimately a consequence of the human alienation from the creator.
    In actual communal practice, sadly, it is often induced by the church which calls itself a ‘Christian’ church, which tends to draw lines between people and alienates people whom it does not like or agree with.
    Human loneliness / alienation never ends. It can only be in the CONTINUAL process of being resolved through participating in the incarnation and ressurrection of Christ, which brings along the reconciliation of the Divine with the whole creation, including (but not limited to) humans.

  • 4. manda  |  May 4, 2006 at 11:10 am

    pls allow me to clarify my previous comment. loneliness itself isn’t a lie, it can be a very solid and distructive feeling/thought that easily drives people to commit suicide. but the idea that we cannot overcome the loneliness/alienation and we have no orgins, no connection with the Lord and people around us is a lie from satan and a misunderstanding of our existance.

    i am very sorry for those churches which make division between people. what can we do about that?……… we can pray for those churches and ask for God’s mercy upon them. right?


  • 5. 胡沖  |  May 4, 2006 at 1:42 pm

    Glad that Manda clarfies the notion of "lie" in her previous post. That is very helpful. Mr. Yam Je's comments are inspiring too, they help deepen the thought and discussion.

    Loneliness is a lie in that it dissuades the creation from believing and participating in fellowship and from reaching out to others. Loneliness is a lie in that it deceives us into the illusion that our story is THE story, our history is THE history, our pain is what really and only matters. We are never understood and will never want to. Loneliness is a lie in that it turns us away from the history and story of God.

    Along this line I have come to what Yam Je indicates. It is a lie of existential and ontological nature. It was, is and will be a predicament of humanity. Indeed, only in CONTINUAL incarnation and resurrection would we (the creation included) be able to gain new life.

  • 6. 但以理  |  May 4, 2006 at 4:37 pm


  • 7. manda  |  May 5, 2006 at 11:40 am

    i believe we shall not make generalisation about how christians and non christians behave.

    “不是難過將他們推走,而是基督徒的關心將他們推走…” urm…. would that be possible to be specific about your experience on the matter?

    if we really wish to start of a rational and intellectual discussion, we probably need a more specific case than that.

  • 8. 但以理  |  May 6, 2006 at 3:57 pm

    From the start I dun mean a serious form of discussion. Nonetheless means it not rational.

    I observe your argument being, first establish your statement (or belief), then exclude every counter case as “exception”. In this way, your belief is absolute, irrefutable indeed.

    I dun think loneliness is a problem solved by incarnation at all, not to say that it is a lie of whatever sort. Remember Jesus, why he felf lonely in the last night? Is He deceived?

    Let me suggest a possibility, maybe you confuse loneliness and self-pity. They are not always the same.

  • 9. manda  |  May 7, 2006 at 3:11 am

    pls accept my apology for your bad feelings that induced by my inarticulation. didn’t mean to be offensive at all.

    may the spirit reveal the truth.


  • 10. j  |  May 11, 2006 at 9:17 am

    I have offered you my view and struggle, you took it and gave it back with yours. It was different from mine, but because of that I felt that I was no longer alone. I extended my arms, and you did not turn them back empty, only asking me to think more clearly what I meant to.

    It may not be what I had thought I wanted. But I have heard voices and have seen faces; it dawned on me that I am no longer alone. “Have I not found a community?” I ask myself.


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